Members
 Register


Rules | Groups | Arcade | Members List

 
Go Back   Bodybuilding Dungeon > Bodybuilding > Steroids > Legit Steroids
 

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
The reality of OTC prohormones (random notes)
Old 06-26-2009, 07:53 PM   #1
NPC USA Champion

 
rmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA.
Posts: 838
Rep Power: 277rmike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond repute

rmike is online now
  Reply With Quote

I really think its a shame that people, especially youngsters, are so misinformed when it comes to pro-hormones. I know you have all heard that you shouldnt do a ph cycle until you are done growing and this is definitely true. The fact is, you shouldnt use them until you are done growing AND reached your full potential without ph supplementation. Many of us, including myself, have taken them wrong just because we wanted to get big quick, and didnt get the most out of them. So, what is your full potential? Thats a great question and there really is no one single correct answer for it because everybody is different. Now, if we go by this rule of thumb many of us will never do a ph cycle because the fact of the matter is we can always do more to improve our physical limitations without any exogenous hormonal support. With that said I feel a more realistic approach would be to reach a plateau and then use the smallest amount of the chemical possible to get to the next level of training. Remember that these are not hormones, they are pre-cursors. They are limited in their conversion rate by the amount of enzyme naturally found in your body that is required to convert the chemical to its target hormone. I am no expert, i do have a minor in chemistry, but i wont pretend to completely understand everything that happens before, during, and after this conversion takes place.I do want to say is that you wont get better results by taking 100mg of halodrol if your body only has enough enzyme to convert 75mg of it. All that would do is waste your money, and put unneeded stress on your liver. Everyone is different, so imo the best thing to do is start out with as low of a dose as possible and review your stats on a weekly basis to see if an increase is neccessary. Some of these ph's do have nasty sides. I have used AAS in the past but more recently, a couple ph's that were considered the "safest" out there and still got lethargy, aggresion, libido was on a rollercoaster lol, and depression. Always remember that if you are making steady gains during your cycle and after 3 weeks the gains just stop, you probably reached your max potential for that particular ph and I think it would be a good time to start your pct. I have seen bloodwork on several people, dogs, and cats who were on oral steroids but only one person who was taking an otc ph. The oral steroids I have mentioned were 17aa's and they DEFINITELY do raise liver enzymes. The veterinarian I worked with at the time told me they are definitely harder on the liver than acetaminophen but if precautions are taken (liver support) they are not overly toxic to a healthy individual if they arent abused. Who would want to abuse them if only so much can be used by your body anyhow?
There has been alot of bad publicity towards ph's and all that has done is made people want to buy them even more! Its hilarious how that works but its the truth, if people are bashing them, saying they are just as dangerous or even worse than aas in some cases, alot of people are going to think they must work as good as steroids do. In reality they dont. Some are better than others though. Im running a cycle of h-drol and e-stane right now and ive gained 5 pounds after 7 days and if my gains stop in another 2 weeks Im starting pct, either way im done with the ph's after 30 days. Im not saying thats what everyone should do, just a matter of personal preference. The point I wanted to make here ( sorry if my ramblings were unbearable lol) is that although it is good to do your research before taking, and spending your money on any supplement, dont believe everything you read. Be objective but dont disregard everything someone says based on one thing you disagree with. Majority rules. Alot of people would like to think they are smarter than they are. Maybe I dont know s*** LOL, who knows?
__________________
"You just gotta go out there and get it man, it aint gonna come to you. You just gotta get it man."- Some weird dude on the pullup bars at northcoast correctional facility in Grafton,OH.
http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/f...ike-start.html - my new training log, its just a beginning
Oral Sustain Alpha- Liquivade! Check it out! http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/f...tml#post724576
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!




View Public Profile Send a private message to rmike Find More Posts by rmike
 
    
 
Old 06-26-2009, 09:59 PM   #2
Moderator

 
Freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Iowa
Age: 24
Posts: 10,351
Rep Power: 955Freak has a reputation beyond reputeFreak has a reputation beyond reputeFreak has a reputation beyond reputeFreak has a reputation beyond reputeFreak has a reputation beyond reputeFreak has a reputation beyond reputeFreak has a reputation beyond reputeFreak has a reputation beyond reputeFreak has a reputation beyond reputeFreak has a reputation beyond repute

Freak is offline
  Reply With Quote

Great post!
__________________
Success is contagious! http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec...nce/sci-happy5

Be the change you want to see in the world. - Gandhi

Push beyond what you think is possible.

Bodybuilding: The science of hacking the human body.

Focus - obstacles are those frightful things you see when you fail to focus on your goals.

When you aim for perfection, you discover it's a moving target. -George Fisher

It's only steroids, not magic! -Gringo
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to Freak Find More Posts by Freak
 
 
Old 06-26-2009, 10:11 PM   #3
Forum Sponsor

 
Medic08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,646
Rep Power: 223Medic08 has a brilliant futureMedic08 has a brilliant futureMedic08 has a brilliant futureMedic08 has a brilliant futureMedic08 has a brilliant futureMedic08 has a brilliant future

Medic08 is online now
  Reply With Quote

That was worth your first rep :)
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to Medic08 Find More Posts by Medic08
 
 
Old 06-26-2009, 10:36 PM   #4
NPC USA Champion

 
rmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA.
Posts: 838
Rep Power: 277rmike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond repute

rmike is online now
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medic08 View Post
That was worth your first rep :)
thanks alot fellas:)
__________________
"You just gotta go out there and get it man, it aint gonna come to you. You just gotta get it man."- Some weird dude on the pullup bars at northcoast correctional facility in Grafton,OH.
http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/f...ike-start.html - my new training log, its just a beginning
Oral Sustain Alpha- Liquivade! Check it out! http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/f...tml#post724576
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to rmike Find More Posts by rmike
 
 
Old 06-30-2009, 03:06 AM   #5
Gotta get a 1000 total!

 
MikeNYY420's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Apalachin New York
Age: 16
Posts: 4,842
Rep Power: 371MikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond repute

MikeNYY420 is online now
  Reply With Quote

Great post, I think the most important thing to remember is that the FDA doesn't regulate any supplements. A lot of the test booster out there don't even work. Tribulis (sp?) is popular but very little research backs it up, yet many, many products contain it for 50+ dollars each.

Would it be fair to say that if an enzyme can be taken orally along with the ph the ph would be fully utilized? I don't know mcuh about steroids, so I'm not sure why I'm in the section but interesting topic nonetheless.
__________________


Deadlift:410
Squat:315
Bench:225

Yankees won the World Series!

My training and nutrition log!

^ Check it out dudes it's pretty cool.
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to MikeNYY420 Find More Posts by MikeNYY420
 
 
Old 06-30-2009, 11:40 AM   #6
REVENGE IS BEST SERVED COLD

 
rIPPDUP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Monroeville, Pennsylvania
Age: 25
Posts: 4,743
Rep Power: 197rIPPDUP has much to be proud ofrIPPDUP has much to be proud ofrIPPDUP has much to be proud ofrIPPDUP has much to be proud of

rIPPDUP is offline
  Reply With Quote

great post! reps for sure when i can dish em out again. btw where are you from in the 412?
__________________
CURRENTLY: 172lbs as of 7/21 8PM



[url]http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/training-logs/38118-revenge-dish.html
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to rIPPDUP Find More Posts by rIPPDUP
 
 
Old 06-30-2009, 06:26 PM   #7
NPC USA Champion

 
rmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA.
Posts: 838
Rep Power: 277rmike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond repute

rmike is online now
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by rIPPDUP View Post
great post! reps for sure when i can dish em out again. btw where are you from in the 412?
thanks alot rIPPDUP! im from mckeesrocks originally but i live in moon twp. now. your from monroevill, isnt that where the original dawn of the dead was filmed? i know thats off subject but i love that flick.LOL
__________________
"You just gotta go out there and get it man, it aint gonna come to you. You just gotta get it man."- Some weird dude on the pullup bars at northcoast correctional facility in Grafton,OH.
http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/f...ike-start.html - my new training log, its just a beginning
Oral Sustain Alpha- Liquivade! Check it out! http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/f...tml#post724576
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to rmike Find More Posts by rmike
 
 
Old 06-30-2009, 06:45 PM   #8
NPC USA Champion

 
rmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA.
Posts: 838
Rep Power: 277rmike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond repute

rmike is online now
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNYY420 View Post
Great post, I think the most important thing to remember is that the FDA doesn't regulate any supplements. A lot of the test booster out there don't even work. Tribulis (sp?) is popular but very little research backs it up, yet many, many products contain it for 50+ dollars each.

Would it be fair to say that if an enzyme can be taken orally along with the ph the ph would be fully utilized? I don't know mcuh about steroids, so I'm not sure why I'm in the section but interesting topic nonetheless.
i totally agree with you on that, trib is way over priced and for the most part alot of these sup companies dont even know if it works but that doesnt matter bc they know people will buy it. its all about what sells. i even had a guy reccomend trib at a sup store for PCT! thats insane! i couldnt believe he said that to me and when i checked him for it he started tellin me about scientific studies and sh** but then i asked him what studies he was referring to and he "couldnt remember". lol maybe the stuff does boost test a little but for PCT? cmon, thats crazy.
i have never thought about raising the enzymes but thats what causes liver damage when you take the ph so it might be worse. wich is why we take liver support, to keep the enzymes from creating damage. however, the liver is an amazing organ with its ability to regenerate IF there is no scar tissue. that is a very interesting thought mike. id definitely like to hear more about that if anyone has any input please give it. maybe we can all learn a little from this. thanks for the reply
__________________
"You just gotta go out there and get it man, it aint gonna come to you. You just gotta get it man."- Some weird dude on the pullup bars at northcoast correctional facility in Grafton,OH.
http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/f...ike-start.html - my new training log, its just a beginning
Oral Sustain Alpha- Liquivade! Check it out! http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/f...tml#post724576
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to rmike Find More Posts by rmike
 
 
Old 06-30-2009, 07:25 PM   #9
Gotta get a 1000 total!

 
MikeNYY420's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Apalachin New York
Age: 16
Posts: 4,842
Rep Power: 371MikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond reputeMikeNYY420 has a reputation beyond repute

MikeNYY420 is online now
  Reply With Quote

Me and A-Ron were jsut talking about this in a different thread, I'll put a link up. He said it's basically useless.

Scar tissue on the liver comes from heavy drinking (and probably other toxins) correct? It can regenerate huh? My health teacher said that it's irreverseable. Then again they are highly biased against drugs and sex. I can't tell you how many times I heard about abstainance in that class. I acted like a pimp just to prove the point that abstance isn't that great. **** where a rubber what's so hard. Anyway back on topic, little rant there lol.

I know they sell all kinds of enzymes at GNC and that type of store. Mabye take a little more of a PH than your body can use and mix with the right digestive enzyme along with liver support.

Oh and that guy was talking abuot studies done by the supplement companies that sell the product. Also known as biased studies and sometimes, just straight lies.
__________________


Deadlift:410
Squat:315
Bench:225

Yankees won the World Series!

My training and nutrition log!

^ Check it out dudes it's pretty cool.
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to MikeNYY420 Find More Posts by MikeNYY420
 
 
Old 07-02-2009, 02:23 AM   #10
NPC USA Champion

 
rmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA.
Posts: 838
Rep Power: 277rmike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond reputermike has a reputation beyond repute

rmike is online now
  Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNYY420 View Post
Me and A-Ron were jsut talking about this in a different thread, I'll put a link up. He said it's basically useless.

Scar tissue on the liver comes from heavy drinking (and probably other toxins) correct? It can regenerate huh? My health teacher said that it's irreverseable. Then again they are highly biased against drugs and sex. I can't tell you how many times I heard about abstainance in that class. I acted like a pimp just to prove the point that abstance isn't that great. **** where a rubber what's so hard. Anyway back on topic, little rant there lol.

I know they sell all kinds of enzymes at GNC and that type of store. Mabye take a little more of a PH than your body can use and mix with the right digestive enzyme along with liver support.

Oh and that guy was talking abuot studies done by the supplement
companies that sell the product. Also known as biased studies and sometimes, just straight lies.
well, its like the liver can heal itself to a certain extent. if someone needs a transplant, they can actually take a piece of someone elses liver and it will grow back! thats amazing if you ask me. but when scar tissue develops it can regenerate. if someone is a heavy drinker (my dad lol) and they have liver problems and quit, as long as its not scarred they will be fine in a few years. cirrhosis (sp?) is irreversible when the liver scars.
no need to apologize for the rant lol that had me crackin up bro!
i like what your sayin about the enzyme theory but i think those might be different types of enzymes than those found in the liver, someone please correct me if im wrong. that might even reduce some of the sides associated with ph use because you wouldnt have those extra toxins floating around unused. maybe? its just an idea, but a good one. maybe we should file some type of disclaimer here! LOL
yeah i hear that on those biased studies, who regulates that crap? probably the sup companies, of course! they would sell ball sweat if they could make a buck off of it.
thanks for the replies fellas, you guys are awesome
__________________
"You just gotta go out there and get it man, it aint gonna come to you. You just gotta get it man."- Some weird dude on the pullup bars at northcoast correctional facility in Grafton,OH.
http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/f...ike-start.html - my new training log, its just a beginning
Oral Sustain Alpha- Liquivade! Check it out! http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/f...tml#post724576
 
Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!

View Public Profile Send a private message to rmike Find More Posts by rmike
 
 
 

Reply

« I COULDNT HELP IT AND WENT TO THE VET | Clomid/Nolvadex? »

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:14 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.