[FemmeFatale]

Hi everyone. Nice to meet you all!

I was browsing around the interwebs (as I ofen do) and thought that I'd ask you guys if you can help me come up with a 'plan' that works for me. First thing's first: I know I'm overweight/obese. I'm nineteen years old, and I have quite a past that (through a combination of my own irresponsibility, and the irresponsibility of the people who "took care of" me) has ultimately made my body ... well, sooooo far from healthy that it's unreal.

I am 5'5" tall, "large"-framed (apparently, I have big wrists - 7" -and hands and feet - ladies size 11) and I currently weigh 245 lbs. I understand a few basic things about weight and body, such as "starvation mode" (The last 45 pounds on my body I have been yoyoing up and down for a few years from trying to "starve" it away... dumb, yes. Desperate? also yes.) I also know that muscle is more metabolically active than fat, that it's more dense etc. I realize it's not just a diet I'm looking for, but an overall lifestyle change. I also realize it's not about pounds on the scale so much as how I feel about myself and how "well" I feel. I get sick quite often and I always feel pretty tired and weak. I also have no health insurance, so, no doctor for me.

My three biggest hurdles with weight loss are:

1. I have really, really bad joints. I had lyme disease as a child and my knees and hips are in pretty awful condition. I'd estimate they are on about a 50/50 scale... 50% of the pain/problems from Lyme, and 50% from the stress of the weight on them.

2. I am an extremely picky eater. Recently I've been trying my best to eat "new" foods to me, but the taste of most things that are supposedly "good for you" make me very sick. Veggies, on the whole, are unbelievably bitter. I can eat fresh, steamed artichokes when I can afford them (read: hardly ever), at times I can eat mashed cauliflower (if I boil it to DEATH and add garlic and a bit of parmesan), and lately I have been making myself take daily shots of V8. V8 is actually really GROSS to me when it's cold, but if I add beef broth and some hot sauce, and warm it up like soup, I can stand it. Other than that, I really loathe veggies. I also can't stand fish or seafood of any kind. 80% taste, 20% that I'm just grossed out by the concept! (And please, PLEASE don't post telling me to "just get over it" or "just grow up" -- if it was that easy, I'd have done it already!) The only foods that seem to be edible for me are things that are bready, meaty, or cheesy. I think it's because I was raised on a steady diet of not eating for 4-5 days at a time, and then stuffing my face with hotpockets and bagel bites when the foodstamps came in.

3. I live with my boyfriend and his family and I currently do not have a job. I live in an area that seems to be a dead zone (the unemployment rate here is something like 30%) and because I can't drive (never learned), can't do physical work (out of shape + bad joints), and have no experience (I'm young!), no one seems to want to hire me. I still put applications in as often as possible, but as it stands I'm pretty broke. (I'm a college student, going to the local community college with a Pell Grant, though, so at least I'm on my way somewhere!) My boyfriend's family isn't very understanding of my weight-loss efforts, and I have to find a way to eat "healthy" on the things they bring in. I'm allowed to ask for one thing from the grocery store per week. I usually ask for skim milk or boneless/skinless chicken breast.

Anyway, I am trying to be as open and mature as possible, and I figured I'd ask the question HERE, where people seem to understand the way the body works...as opposed to, I don't know, somewhere like calorie-count.com...where everyone tells me to get over myself.

I look forward to hearing from you all, and I'll be watching this thread for a few days to answer any specific questions regarding myself/health/food in the house.

To sum it all up: How can someone in a situation such as mine ever hope to become healthy?


Thanks guys. Sorry for the long post.

[Thomas_Rivera]

Welcome to the dungeon! Well its never hopeless for anyone. What is your diet currently like on a daily basis? If you have an example of that then it will be much easier to assess what you need to do.


Even in the most bleak of situations, you can find the right combination of foods that will accomplish something. First thing to do is to have hope, thats the first step. What foods are constatntly available to you?

[FemmeFatale]

Foods that are constantly available:

Instant white rice, instant potatoes, sugared cereals, eggs, low-quality margarine, olive oil (because my boyfriends grandpa has high cholesterol, I use that to cook my food with), boneless/skinless chicken breast is almost always in the freezer, 73/27 ground beef (when I cook it I rinse it), white bread, bacon, 2% milk, canned soup (think campbells/progresso, off brands though), canned veggies that I cant stand, iceberg lettuce (If only! It tastes like grass to me though x_X), *goes to look around* ice cream, packaged cookies, ketchup, diet soda (boyfriends mom is diabetic), white pasta, occasionally I slip heartland pasta into the cart and get away with it (mixed half white/half other stuff, with flax and whatnot in it for omega-3 since I dont eat fish), I drink a lot of hot tea with splenda (and sometimes nothing at all), peanut butter, sweetened applesauce, canned kidney beans (which I do like), shredded cheddar cheese, chocolate syrup, breadcrumbs, hot sauce (I love it on turkey breast in a wheat pita, but of course, they always tell me that turkey breast and pita are too expensive.. :( ), I really love fruit but there is rarely any in the house. We usually get about one kind every other week in here - this week it was bananas so we have some floating around, I also think there's a can of mandarin oranges in the cabinet... in addition, there is also a large quantity of spices (which I make full use of. My favorite is lemon pepper and/or garlic), and a large quantity of really gross frozen and canned veggies (like creamed corn, turnip greens, bleh)... If I see/remember/think of anything else, I'll post :) I also drink a lot of water. I know its good for me, and plus I like it... also, I have about half a 64-oz bottle of v8 here. I eat it as soup, as mentioned above.

Sometimes we have canned carrots as well. I hate carrots, but I have made myself eat them by boiling them into a mush in chicken broth before. Not my favorite, but I can choke it down if need be. Most veggies I can't even do that much with. :(


---
Edit: I also forgot to tell you what my diet is like on a daily basis.

I usually have a few cups of hot tea scattered throughout, some kind of breakfast cereal (Not usually for breakfast though. Dry in a bowl in the middle of the day is my favorite way to eat cereal =P ) uhhmm, every so often there is cottage cheese so sometimes I have that. Mostly my diet consists of ground beef, chicken breast, cheddar cheese, rice, and mashed potatoes, in some combination or the other daily. Man, it's so embarassing to say that lol. Sometimes I'll be adventurous and have a grilled cheese. Sometimes I'll have a ham sandwich... I dont use that much ham though, I dont really like it too much. But when they bring in good stuff (i.e. when the good tasting ham is on sale, ... i hate honey ham) I'll have a sandwich or two that week. Also, the cookies are placed open-package on the counter and the room I sleep in is just beside the kitchen. I admit to walking by and grabbing a cookie several times on most days. The thing is, I dont even really like sweets or cookies that much. I've asked for them to put them out of sight or at the very least in a jar or something... they like to have them available for walk-bys though. It's really trying for me..mindless grab-munching. Also a lot of water, diet soda, and crystal-light type beverages. I know artificial sweeteners aren't good for you, etc... but it's that or sugared beverages. I get so bored of water 24/7 even though I do drink 4-5 (16 oz) glasses of plain water a day. The other stuff is for when I'm sick to death of water.

[maverick_76]

Well it seems to me that problems with your diet stem from a lot of processed foods. The meat and potatoes and rice is good, but the cookies and things like that are a no-no. Plus, judging from what else I see it is not your calorie intake that has you overweight. What sort of exercise do you get? Cause from the looks of it you take in about 2000-2500 calories a day, which is actually about as much as a 175 pound active person should intake (man or woman). My guess is that you really need to just curb the sweets, make sure to eat more often, try eating six times a day by halving your meals and eating about every three to four hours, this will make you eat a little less; and making sure to get some exercise in every day. Even something as simple as a nightly walk will over time loosen your joints and turn your metabolism up. If you could stay on these guidelines for several months you could lose up to a pound a week. Remember it is not the drastic changes that do it, as you learned from starving yourself, it is small changes that cause you to lose the weight and keep it off permanently. The slower you lose weight the better, no more than 5 lbs a week or you will be that much more susceptible to gaining it right back.

[FemmeFatale]

Originally Posted by maverick_76

Well it seems to me that problems with your diet stem from a lot of processed foods. The meat and potatoes and rice is good, but the cookies and things like that are a no-no. Plus, judging from what else I see it is not your calorie intake that has you overweight. What sort of exercise do you get? Cause from the looks of it you take in about 2000-2500 calories a day, which is actually about as much as a 175 pound active person should intake (man or woman). My guess is that you really need to just curb the sweets, make sure to eat more often, try eating six times a day by halving your meals and eating about every three to four hours, this will make you eat a little less; and making sure to get some exercise in every day. Even something as simple as a nightly walk will over time loosen your joints and turn your metabolism up. If you could stay on these guidelines for several months you could lose up to a pound a week. Remember it is not the drastic changes that do it, as you learned from starving yourself, it is small changes that cause you to lose the weight and keep it off permanently. The slower you lose weight the better, no more than 5 lbs a week or you will be that much more susceptible to gaining it right back.

I do actually go for walks, in addition to using this weird old exercise bike thingie that I have for as long as my knees can stand it (10-15 minutes at a time, depending). I don't really eat that much in the way of sweets, like I said, I don't really like them much. Those damn cookies are just hard to walk past lol! To be honest, I have been writing down everything I eat and I usually eat about 1700ish calories a day (and thats with me eating till I'm satisfied, not watching myself). I think I have something seriously wrong with my metabolism.

Thanks so much for your input. :) If you have any more advice for me, I'm all ears!

[maverick_76]

Make sure to eat more often, and if that is the case, actually I would recommend eating more. Up your calories to about 2000, add an extra helping of rice and meat in two meals and that will do it, you body actually has to burn calories to digest food so that is why it is so important that you eat enough. And also like I said, eat healthy food six times a day. How long are your walks? How often do you take them?

[Zack]

without a doubt lose the sweets but for maybe 1 time a week. This will give you something to look forward to.

Those processed foods will end up hurting you in the long run, but the meat and rice and all of that is fine. you definitely want to get all ur macros in.

without a doubt u can make this happen. we're all here right behind you so u got nothing to worry about

[Thomas_Rivera]

With the food available to you, I would suggest a ketogenic diet for some time. Basically you would just be eating meat, drinking water maybe some no calorie drinks like crystal light, and after adjusting to it one of the immediate benefits is a decreased appetite.

[Sky]

I second Thomas' comment. Since walks seem to be rather inconvenient, I would suggest taking care of your diet first. You have to be disciplined if you want to get somewhere, and it will take a long time, but we're all here, so keep on rolling! Lessen your appetite, eat the right meals (Some have been mentioned above), stick zealously to your exercise plan and you will eventually find yourself in a better state, both physically and emotionally.

Control the cookies! Rawr.

[FemmeFatale]

Soup. I forgot to mention soup. I eat a lot of soup.

Thomas - Ketogenic? Does that mean low-carb? I dont know if I could live without pasta and/or rice. But at this point, I guess there's no harm in trying, right?

Maverick - I try to walk daily, but sometimes my knees are...well, not doing what I want them to do. Usually I walk for at least 20 minutes briskly, or I'll walk for over an hour very slowly (i.e. I'll walk from here to the Big Lots and kill time by walking up and down every aisle and staring at things, and then walk home).

Sky - thanks for your support. You know I have a brother named Sky =)

[Zack]

I dunno what it is, but I like you. You're very motivated and have a good outlook on things and are willing to work to get what you want. I definitely respect that a lot

[robbyybt]

Originally Posted by FemmeFatale

Thomas - Ketogenic? Does that mean low-carb? I dont know if I could live without pasta and/or rice. But at this point, I guess there's no harm in trying, right?

Although youve said you cant live without them let me show you what they are doing to you. As you said they are usually white rice and white pasta, these foods are simple carbs and cause a spike in insulin. (insulin is what is released by your body to regulate blood sugar levels) Insulin also helps in the role of storing fat, when insulin is released it causes your liver to store glucose as glycogen. This is fine after exercise because your body will use your glycogen stores up for energy however your exercise reigime isnt that intense (so you wont need that much glycogen) so unfortunetly all the extra glucose is getting sent to fat cells.

This means if you eat a meal and then have snacks for a while after it will all be getting stored as fat.

Yes Ketosis is a low carb diet which I believe would be a good choice for you.

[Thomas_Rivera]

Originally Posted by FemmeFatale

Thomas - Ketogenic? Does that mean low-carb? I dont know if I could live without pasta and/or rice. But at this point, I guess there's no harm in trying, right?

After you get into it for the first few days it becomes really easy not to eat anything that you would usually crave. An immediate result of ketosis is a noticeable loss in weight from water that glycogen holds onto. The loss of water weight isn't permanent. Once you switch back to a normal diet your glycogen levels will return back to normal and you'll get the water back in your muscles, however, with your joint problems the alleviation of pressure on them is a step towards being more active.

[FemmeFatale]

Zack - Thanks so much. I dunno, I feel like I've made enough excuses. "I'm too tired." "I don't know how..." But at this point, my ladies size 20 jeans are getting a bit tight and I'm aching for those 14's I had on about a year and a half ago. I feel like I'm killing myself. I hear about people enjoying their lives, having a good time... None of that seems to involve that "I'm too fat; I don't want anyone to see me like this." feeling, none of that involves the "I can't go to the mall, I'd get tired so fast, they'd all desert me again." feeling. I'm just so... fed up. I'm ready to quit being miserable :)

robby - That is really, very fascinating. I definitely want to go read more about it. There were suspicions (not confirmations, so no official diagnosis) floating around when I still had access to a doctor (about age 14-15) that I may have PCOS (polycycstic ovaries) and may thus be somewhat insulin resistant. I don't know if this is true or not, though. However, diabetes does run very strongly on both sides of my family. In fact, so does heart disease, alzheimers, and cancer. That's a frightening prospect when you're obese and not even 20 yet, that's for sure!

Thomas - I've gone around the house and read labels on things I like to eat. Very, very few of them are low carb! This will be tough! However there's no limit on calories when you're low-carbing right? That means soon I can indulge in one of my guilty pleasures. Cheeeeeese.... lol!

Anywho, do you think you guys could help me come up with a more... specific idea of what to do? Like, a few ideas for meals to eat? I'm a (rather) good cook, so I can handle whatever you throw at me. I'd also like to assert that I have to cook for 7+ people 1-2 nights a week...any ideas for modifications of a few of the simple recipes I do would be wonderful - just for my own portions...(I have to admit, since being introduced to the idea that I, the carbaholic, could eat low-carb... I have been fantasizing about a small bowl of seasoned ground beef [taco style] with cheese and eating it with a spoon...hahaha...) usually they have me make things like casseroles (that include noodles or potatoes) or spaghetti, or tacos, ... well, you get the idea.

I'd also like to know if a person on a low-carb type diet has to be a "lifer." As in, ... If I do it, I have to do it forever? THAT's a scary idea!

[Thomas_Rivera]

Originally Posted by FemmeFatale

Thomas - I've gone around the house and read labels on things I like to eat. Very, very few of them are low carb! This will be tough! However there's no limit on calories when you're low-carbing right? That means soon I can indulge in one of my guilty pleasures. Cheeeeeese.... lol!

Anywho, do you think you guys could help me come up with a more... specific idea of what to do? Like, a few ideas for meals to eat? I'm a (rather) good cook, so I can handle whatever you throw at me. I'd also like to assert that I have to cook for 7+ people 1-2 nights a week...any ideas for modifications of a few of the simple recipes I do would be wonderful - just for my own portions...(I have to admit, since being introduced to the idea that I, the carbaholic, could eat low-carb... I have been fantasizing about a small bowl of seasoned ground beef [taco style] with cheese and eating it with a spoon...hahaha...) usually they have me make things like casseroles (that include noodles or potatoes) or spaghetti, or tacos, ... well, you get the idea.

I'd also like to know if a person on a low-carb type diet has to be a "lifer." As in, ... If I do it, I have to do it forever? THAT's a scary idea!

For low carb diets you can stick to meat, whipping cream, no sugar jello, cream cheese, hot dogs, bacon, eggs. Trust me on low carb diets your appetite and cravings will drop. And eating all the calories you want is a misconception, i was watching a study done on low carb diets and the people that actually decide to "eat whatever they want and still to still lose weight" were on average still eating less in terms of calories than counterparts moderate carb diets. You can not eat all you want on low carb diets, you can gain weight on low carb diets as with any diet if you eat more calories than you expend.

You don't have to be on a low carb diet for life, it's just an effective way to burn fat and it's a cost effective way to lose weight as well since the diet can basically be all meat.

[FemmeFatale]

Thomas - that definitely makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I wasn't necessarily planning on going hogwild. :P I was just trying to comfort myself that everything would be okay if I did it. How long do you reccomend doing this for? Also, isn't a low-carb diet like, cholesterol city? I will probably be doing mostly eggwhites and chicken breast anyhow, because cholesterol scaaaaares me. I can only imagine what my poor heart must be up to right now! LOL! I have also read that it isn't a good idea to exercise too much low-carbing... I don't know if I agree with that really.

Thanks everyone again for your fantastic advice, and keep it comin' if ya got it!

[Thomas_Rivera]

Actually ketogenic diets have positive effects on lowering cholesterol.

The Effects of a High-protein, Low-fat, Ketogenic Diet on Adolescents With Morbid Obesity: Body Composition, Blood Chemistries, and Sleep Abnormalities -- Willi et al. 101 (1): 61 -- Pediatrics

If you don't want to read through the whole thing, basically a decrease in body fat, limited decrease in lean body mass, increase in REM sleep. I would suggest something around 12-15 weeks at a loss of a steady 1-2 pounds a week. Maybe up to 3 pounds a week.

And it's not that it isn't a good idea to workout while on ketosis, it's actually good to workout during ketosis, I workout during a modified ketogenic diet. It's just that ketosis has a negative effect on sprinting/power related workouts. Thats because of lowered glycogen levels. But endurance levels usually stay the same on ketogenic diets. If you've ever seen people who swim a river for how ever many miles and use fat for fuel during it, thats the idea behind ketosis. Your endurance exercising, walking, jogging, it will be fine to do and will help in weight loss.

If I find the video of the guy swimming i'll repost it up. But I do alot of cardio, I live in the city so on top of my gym cardio which sometimes is 4-5 treadmill miles i walk a good few miles a day around NYC.

[FemmeFatale]

I must sound so redundant, but Thomas, that is REALLY interesting. Do you have any idea roughly about the number of carbs I should aim for, per day? Also, calories? I'm not so good at working all this out myself.

[Thomas_Rivera]

Carbs per a day you would limit to about 20-30. Around .9-1.0 grams of protein per a pound that you weigh. And the rest in fat. You should establish what your baseline use for calories is by recording your intake on a site like fitday.com then adjust your caloric intake for your goals.

[chrispghmuscle]

Welcome to the dungeon. I'm glad you joined. We can and will help you in anyway possible. I sense you have a strong will to succeed and you seem very motivated. I feel you need to take small steps first and make adjustments from there. See how your body reacts to those changes that my fellow dungeonier's have suggested.

Keep us updated with your progress, if you see things that may need changed note them here and we will help work it out.

Your never far from having someone online to help you out. We are a GLOBAL community.

I hope you all the best.

Chris

[FemmeFatale]

Hey guys! I'm sort of winging it here, I don't think I'm doing this right. I've been cutting carbs to atkins induction level, 20g per day, (As a one week experiment) and in four days (This morning makes four) I have lost six pounds! As happy as I am about that... that can't be healthy? Should I up the carbs? I'm eating like 1700ish calories a day but I can't really bring myself to eat more. Meat is filling! LOL!

[Zack]

could be water weight.

either way 1 to 2lbs a week is healthy

[under construction]

Originally Posted by FemmeFatale

Hey guys! I'm sort of winging it here, I don't think I'm doing this right. I've been cutting carbs to atkins induction level, 20g per day, (As a one week experiment) and in four days (This morning makes four) I have lost six pounds! As happy as I am about that... that can't be healthy? Should I up the carbs? I'm eating like 1700ish calories a day but I can't really bring myself to eat more. Meat is filling! LOL!

actually that is to be expected. Ketosis diets like the atkins do this for the first 2-3 week diminishing of course then you will level out and things will go normally. Good luck-uc

[Thomas_Rivera]

Originally Posted by FemmeFatale

Hey guys! I'm sort of winging it here, I don't think I'm doing this right. I've been cutting carbs to atkins induction level, 20g per day, (As a one week experiment) and in four days (This morning makes four) I have lost six pounds! As happy as I am about that... that can't be healthy? Should I up the carbs? I'm eating like 1700ish calories a day but I can't really bring myself to eat more. Meat is filling! LOL!

Like I said in my previous post, a big chunk of water weight is from glycogen loss, it holds onto water. When you resume eating carbs your weight will go up again.

[FemmeFatale]

Originally Posted by Thomas_Rivera

Like I said in my previous post, a big chunk of water weight is from glycogen loss, it holds onto water. When you resume eating carbs your weight will go up again.

Alright! It's natural I'd get a little paranoid. I've never seen results like this without, well...fasting.

Thanks.

[Thomas_Rivera]

Originally Posted by FemmeFatale

Alright! It's natural I'd get a little paranoid. I've never seen results like this without, well...fasting.

Thanks.

No problem. And when the water comes back its not like a bloat, its muscular.

[FemmeFatale]

ARGH! This is the most frustrating thing on the planet!

Okay, I dont think I'm 'not eating enough' because I'm eating plenty of calories... I'm also even exercising more because I have more energy not eating carbs. Weird.

Anyway, I lost 12 lbs in my -very first week- and I assume that it's mostly water.... For two, two and a half weeks now, no matter how low I go with the carbs (even tried a few 0-carb days) and how much "extra" calories I eat "just in case" or how much "extra" I exercise "to see if that's the problem" I'm just at a complete standstill. Nothing. Nada. Zip.

So I made kind of a rash decision. For two days I'm going to go ahead and eat carbs as I "normally" would (yes, I am already feeling sick from the blood sugar thing) and try to go right back into cutting out carbs again... maybe that'll do it.

And yes, I was in fact 'in ketosis' the entire time. I managed to get a hold of a (fresh) bottle of Ketostix and was testing myself twice daily. (In the morning and evening.)

I hope I didn't make the wrong decision, but I am -soooo- frustrated.

[GeorgeT]

Hmm, same thing happened to me, tell me how it goes but theres more factors that might have affected me. exactly wht kind of exercise have u been doing? and how long?

[robbyybt]

Hows this going? are you back on ketosis yet or did you stay on ketosis?

[n88tr]

Originally Posted by FemmeFatale

ARGH! This is the most frustrating thing on the planet!

Okay, I dont think I'm 'not eating enough' because I'm eating plenty of calories... I'm also even exercising more because I have more energy not eating carbs. Weird.

Anyway, I lost 12 lbs in my -very first week- and I assume that it's mostly water.... For two, two and a half weeks now, no matter how low I go with the carbs (even tried a few 0-carb days) and how much "extra" calories I eat "just in case" or how much "extra" I exercise "to see if that's the problem" I'm just at a complete standstill. Nothing. Nada. Zip.

So I made kind of a rash decision. For two days I'm going to go ahead and eat carbs as I "normally" would (yes, I am already feeling sick from the blood sugar thing) and try to go right back into cutting out carbs again... maybe that'll do it.

And yes, I was in fact 'in ketosis' the entire time. I managed to get a hold of a (fresh) bottle of Ketostix and was testing myself twice daily. (In the morning and evening.)

I hope I didn't make the wrong decision, but I am -soooo- frustrated.

A lot of things you're saying remind me of myself a while back [not too long ago]: impatient but 110% committed to improvement.

Don't take things too hard and don't punish yourself. Think of it like this, each day is a time to do better than you had before. Results don't happen overnight, but imho the more overweight you are, the faster results will come, you just can't give yourself any excuses unless it actually hurts to move to do cardio, then i'd hop on a stationary bike for 40 mins of low-intensity cardio.

I know you said your joints hurt and you had lyme disease early on, that sucks. i have no idea how you deal with the pain. i pray that it gets less intense for you as time goes on. with less weight on your frame as well, the joint problems should lessen.

We can figure out your macro nutrients for you: carbs, protein and good fat, but you have to figure out how to break it up over 5-7 meals, small meals every 3 hours. Eat clean but don't starve yourself, it'll be a lot harder to lose PROPERLY if you do it that way. Your body needs fuel, clean fuel to BURN.

I'm behind you, and don't feel out of place, Islander and FragHag are females [there are probably more, lol] at the Dungeon here too.

Just to keep things orderly and so we can see your progress, i'd like to see you start a log. Lot's of people have logs, including myself, we like to see where everyone is at, their goals being met, etc. Cya around, .

Alex