[tknight4305]

I hate when ppl try to dis prove "evolution" and have no idea wut they are talkin about. Please research a lil bit cuz you make urself look stupid by talking ab things u don't have a clue about.

[Thomas_Rivera]

Well evolution to some is against what they believe. I've never read anything from anyone that has actually even begun to scratch the surface of evolution being wrong with any scientific proof.

[RAGEN2008]

When they get so big they can't put on a shirt or lift their arms because they're too heavy ? LOL

[Determined 08]

Originally Posted by tknight4305

I hate when ppl try to dis prove "evolution" and have no idea wut they are talkin about. Please research a lil bit cuz you make urself look stupid by talking ab things u don't have a clue about.

Originally Posted by Thomas_Rivera

Well evolution to some is against what they believe. I've never read anything from anyone that has actually even begun to scratch the surface of evolution being wrong with any scientific proof.

Personal question for you fellows. Do you believe in creationism? That there is a reason we are here (God). How we got here and where we are going kinda thing.

[Thomas_Rivera]

I'm an athiest. I don't believe in anything supernatural, nor do I believe in creationism or intelligent design.

[Determined 08]

How did humans appear on this Earth?

[Thomas_Rivera]

I think you know my answer is going to be "through evolution" :P

[Determined 08]

Haha I just don't understand atheists theory. How did something come from nothing? Not tryin to disprove or prove anything it's a serious question. It boggles my mind.

I repect everyones religious views just like to know why people think tw way they do it interests me I donno

[Thomas_Rivera]

Earth is formed however many millions of years ago. The planet is basically filled with base gasses under tremendous heat and electrical influence coupled with the physical adjitation of the forming planet.

What happens is abiogenesis, the formation of the building blocks of life from simple gasses, heat and electricity under the normal gravity of earth. You get lipids, base proteins. Lipids gather under osmotic pressure and form more complicated lipids, you have base proteins that can spontaneously polymerize as well.

The base organisms eventually develop enzymatic capabilities and over long periods of time develop more complicated structures. OVer a period of 400 million years you get modern life.

[Determined 08]

Interesting. I just don't like when Atheists try and to disprove Gods existence by saying there's no proof of God while there is still no info disproving that God existed. It's a circular argument.

I base everything off of one of SCIENCES main "laws" that something cannot come from nothing. Therefore it's impossible that anything today that is in this world should be here. Which is why I personally believe that there is one true God through FAITH. just my 2cents

[Thomas_Rivera]

Well the existance of a god can't be disproven or proven in scientific terms.

What confounds me is if I were to suggest to a religious person the the singularity which started the big bang and the rest of the universe has always been there or at least the base materials were there and gathered at some point, they ask me "how did it get there, who made it". Suggesting the need for a creator, if I ask the same question but in terms of how their god was created the usual reply is "he has always existed" or the other favorite "he created himself". It becomes a thing where the perceived prerequisite creator does not need one himself but everything else does.

At the same token, you can't use one part of science like conservation of mass while disregarding other portions of science that have proof behind them to suggest the existence of a god or to try to disprove things that have proof.

[Determined 08]

^haha pretty much everything is a circular argument which is why I didn't mean to start a debate cause its hard if not impossible to prove or disprove almost anything.

That's why I said I believe what I believe through FAITH cause no one can disprove what I believer or you believe because its what we feel in our hearts is true.

Respect to you Thomas for not being an ass when most atheists I have talken to are. haha. Good healthy discussion!

[Thomas_Rivera]

Most athiests online are just trolls :P

[Determined 08]

Originally Posted by Thomas_Rivera

Most athiests online are just trolls :P

LOL!!!

[tps154]

ya sorry im coming back in this so late havent checked the site in a while... but by no proof i meant there has been no solid evidence of a human evolving from another animal. not trying to restart this discussion tho haha i agree with basically everything Determined said (again just my beliefs). i just read all of this, good discussion glad no punches were thrown as happens too often in religious debates

[ultra Tick]

i know how about lets just keep our eyes on markus ruhl see how far he goes lol.
but i do believe that man is changing into a better faster stronger
being ultimate ALPHA MAn

[pottsy09]

Originally Posted by ultra Tick

i know how about lets just keep our eyes on markus ruhl see how far he goes lol.
but i do believe that man is changing into a better faster stronger
being ultimate ALPHA MAn

thats a good idea mate, pure monster lol.

[Oldford911]

AS for the how big thing, Gene Doping is the next step IMO. Like the Belgium Blue Bull. If someday they deside to do that on a human being then we have a whole new species of bodybuilders, men who will dwarf Ronnie coleman, 7 feet tall and 600+ lbs at 3% BF. just take a look at this thing,lol

[tps154]

^ thats some scary stuff IMO

[A-Ron21]

Has anyone bothered to think that evolution and religion don't exclude each other? Couldn't it be a reasonable conclusion to say that god, knowing what will happen in the future, used evolution as a mechanism to create human beings? Science and religion are not separated, but in fact closely related. Don't they both, at their foundations, have the same purpose??

Everyone should check out this book: Amazon.com: The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief (9780743286398): Francis S. Collins: Books

[Thomas_Rivera]

Originally Posted by Oldford911

AS for the how big thing, Gene Doping is the next step IMO. Like the Belgium Blue Bull. If someday they deside to do that on a human being then we have a whole new species of bodybuilders, men who will dwarf Ronnie coleman, 7 feet tall and 600+ lbs at 3% BF. just take a look at this thing,lol

It's possible to get humans like that if there was continuous breeding of people with altered myostatin genes among other things. If the right people breed and the right genes are expressed or go under beneficial mutation, it's resonable over a long time.

Originally Posted by A-Ron21

Has anyone bothered to think that evolution and religion don't exclude each other? Couldn't it be a reasonable conclusion to say that god, knowing what will happen in the future, used evolution as a mechanism to create human beings? Science and religion are not separated, but in fact closely related. Don't they both, at their foundations, have the same purpose??

Everyone should check out this book: Amazon.com: The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief (9780743286398): Francis S. Collins: Books

Evolution does exclude religion, evolution has nothing to do with anything aside from the change in genetic information generation to generation after life is present. Evolution itself does not prove that there is a god that put it in motion nor does its presence prove either of those suggestions.


Science and religion are not closely related. Religion requires only faith, no factual evidence that can be proven in a scientific way. If one were to prove something religious most of the time all they need to say is "it's written here, I have faith, so it is true". From personal experience, just talking to other people religion is also given privileges that science is not. If any religious text is translated from a base language into others and there is an inconsistency, someone can just say "It was translated improperly, but the rest is true". As well as I mentioned before the creator clause that is applied to everything non religious "If this is here there must be a creator, but god was always there and lacked the need for a creator".

Scientifically there needs to be a hypothesis, then that hypothesis needs to be tested, then that test is scrutinized by other scientists to see if the results can be replicated. Science deals with the observable natural world under tests that can be freely replicated given the right circumstances.

Religion is meant to give hope and purpose, science is the breakdown of the world to give factual understanding and knowledge. There are plenty of people that are strongly religious and believe in evolution, abiogenisis, big bang and thats fine, but those things don't prove the existence of a god.

[ultra Tick]

i agree with thomas_rivera i think it's funny and sad that people who believe in the big bang theory and evolution of ape to man thing, can't conceive the awesomeness of a god that was alway there that created man in his image they cant believe something so amazing. it's sad that they rather believe that they came from monkey's instead of coming from the gods , and that some people want to be gods with all there technology the except the superficial instead the supernatural.

i personally believe in the supernatural awesomeness of GOD
i consider myself a warrior angel in the kingdom of GOD

[GENOMYX]

Originally Posted by ultra Tick

i agree with thomas_rivera i think it's funny and sad that people who believe in the big bang theory and evolution of ape to man thing, can't conceive the awesomeness of a god that was alway there that created man in his image they cant believe something so amazing. it's sad that they rather believe that they came from monkey's instead of coming from the gods , and that some people want to be gods with all there technology the except the superficial instead the supernatural.

i personally believe in the supernatural awesomeness of GOD
i consider myself a warrior angel in the kingdom of GOD

Im not quite sure thats what Thomas said.

[HawaiianPride.]

Yeah in fact it's kind of the opposite.

[Iron253]

I believe that a person will reach a certain level of muscle mass acording to their genetic's. I know that this is hated and supressed knowledge by the money hungry mainstream magizine,s that try to make people think that they can look like Ronnie Coleman even if they have the genetic make up more like Woody Allen.

[GENOMYX]

LMAO

[A-Ron21]

Originally Posted by Thomas_Rivera

Evolution does exclude religion, evolution has nothing to do with anything aside from the change in genetic information generation to generation after life is present. Evolution itself does not prove that there is a god that put it in motion nor does its presence prove either of those suggestions.


Science and religion are not closely related. Religion requires only faith, no factual evidence that can be proven in a scientific way. If one were to prove something religious most of the time all they need to say is "it's written here, I have faith, so it is true". From personal experience, just talking to other people religion is also given privileges that science is not. If any religious text is translated from a base language into others and there is an inconsistency, someone can just say "It was translated improperly, but the rest is true". As well as I mentioned before the creator clause that is applied to everything non religious "If this is here there must be a creator, but god was always there and lacked the need for a creator".

Scientifically there needs to be a hypothesis, then that hypothesis needs to be tested, then that test is scrutinized by other scientists to see if the results can be replicated. Science deals with the observable natural world under tests that can be freely replicated given the right circumstances.

Religion is meant to give hope and purpose, science is the breakdown of the world to give factual understanding and knowledge. There are plenty of people that are strongly religious and believe in evolution, abiogenisis, big bang and thats fine, but those things don't prove the existence of a god.

All you did was point out the differences in science and religion. You did not however show how they would exclude each other. Wouldn't you think that if god designed the universe that god would be the best chemist, physicist, engineer, biologist, etc??

Religion is an exploration of our world. It is meant to answer the questions: why are we here? how did we get here? and so on. Isn't science answering the same basic questions?

Also, I never said evolution proved the existence of a god, or vice versa.

Also food for thought: Why is god always a male?? If god made people, and we are made in god's image, then logically god would be a female. Why is this? Because, the genetic default of all living beings is female, and this includes human beings.

[Determined 08]

^^^it's clearly stated in the bible that God is male. God, Son, and Saviour (the trinity) are 3 in 1. Jesus was a male so by way of simple reasoning it makes sense that God was male

Also when Jesus was crucified, to pay the debt for the sins of the world, he shouted to heaven, "FATHER why have you forsaken me?"

[tps154]

whoa this thing is getting deep. i have to say i like where a-ron is going with this tho. i dont like arguing about this because its like politics. no one ever really changes their minds about their beliefs unless they are looking to.

[Thomas_Rivera]

Originally Posted by ultra Tick

i agree with thomas_rivera i think it's funny and sad that people who believe in the big bang theory and evolution of ape to man thing, can't conceive the awesomeness of a god that was alway there that created man in his image they cant believe something so amazing. it's sad that they rather believe that they came from monkey's instead of coming from the gods , and that some people want to be gods with all there technology the except the superficial instead the supernatural.

i personally believe in the supernatural awesomeness of GOD
i consider myself a warrior angel in the kingdom of GOD

That's incorrect. What scientists do say is that the great apes and humans share a common ancestor. Humans did not evolve from monkeys as monkeys themselves are evolved forms.

Originally Posted by A-Ron21

All you did was point out the differences in science and religion. You did not however show how they would exclude each other. Wouldn't you think that if god designed the universe that god would be the best chemist, physicist, engineer, biologist, etc??

Religion is an exploration of our world. It is meant to answer the questions: why are we here? how did we get here? and so on. Isn't science answering the same basic questions?

Also, I never said evolution proved the existence of a god, or vice versa.

Also food for thought: Why is god always a male?? If god made people, and we are made in god's image, then logically god would be a female. Why is this? Because, the genetic default of all living beings is female, and this includes human beings.

I'll try not to sound like i'm disproving any religious texts or making stickman arguements, all though some of what I write might sound that way.

I don't think that a god designed the universe personally and if god designed everything then there are some things he missed out on if he is the best. As for exluding evolution from religion i'll be a bit more specific and It sounds like you're a proponent of intelligent design if you are I ask.

Why do organisms have vestigial organs?

And as a follow up to that, if a god had a clear cut plan for everything with vestigial organs why do they still exist?

Why do proccesses like vision need to be corrected in the brain? When we capture images in the eye they are inverted and the brain needs to adjust them, if there was a creator why put the extra strain on the brain and not just cause evolution to produce a lens to invert it to normal?



__________________

I don't know what faith you follow, but i'll pull something out of the judeo-christian ideology. The flood story, any flood story actually. If the whole world was flooded and it was possible to hold two of every animal in a boat there would be a bottleneck effect. Simply put the genetic information on every level of every creature would be extremely limited. I'm sure there are loads of flood stories, but in all world wide flood stories the inevitibility is a worldwide bottle neck effect.

We don't see this in many creatures except for a select few groups, cheetahs and pandas to come off the top of my head.

But I wonder why any of the world flood causing gods would do such a thing when humans (generally the prized creation) would become more likely to die from disease and infection of bacteria and virus' that would not be effected at all. Why would a god with the intention of evolution want to stop it in all creatures except bacteria?

Other reasons why I feel religion excludes evolution

1. From what i've read religious folk tend to date the earth within 6000 years of age, clearly not enough for significant evolution to occur.
2. Videos and statements like the ones Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort make.

Evolution excludes religion for the simple fact that there is no way to prove that a higher being put it into motion.

Science and religion address some of the same questions but there are a lot of differences. Like I said before, science is fact based and observable, religion is faith based. You can't ask someone to religiously prove theory gravity or prove conservation of mass. Same way you can't ask someone to scientifically influence the chances of winning the lottery without physically doing something or to scientifically pray for someone to get better.

Science does not deal with the super natural ever, even if it can answer some of the questions that something that deals with the super natural tries to answer.

As for the male/female thing. The genetic default for ALL living things is not female. Unisexuality is predominantly a macro level trait. There are plenty of creatures that are A/transexual, they either can reproduce by themselves or have both the potential for female and male organ systems. That being, bacteria are asexual and every human at least has millions of them crawling over their body. So asexualism is the largest reproductive style.