[fLesh23]

Here we go fellas, enough of ruining someone elses thread...

My personal opinion..
Yes, I'm a huge Cutler fan... He looks so much better than Ronnie in all front poses, the only thing coleman has had on cutler is his back... BUT cutlers back has improved so much I honestly think he'll take it this year, his calves, triceps(lawl), abs, are wayy better.. Cutler does a better job of promoting bodybuilding anyway, soon as cutler takes Mr.O, I think we'll get more mainstream.

[BigBen]

personally i cant wait for the end of the mass monster era to end, and i hope it does. both men got my unending respect bc both men have taken the sport to a new level. I thnk ron will have the hardest battle he ever has this year bc jay really has came along in my opinion, if jay would stop working on width and start really focusing on his thciness it could be trouble for ronnie, but until then Ronnie will continue to take it until he retires bc he is grossly thick, everywhere.

[Lineski]

Ronnie's by far the better bodybuilder in person or on video. Photographs never tell the whole story and this is especially true with the whole Ronnie vs. Jay debate. Ronnie's just a better bodybuilder with better shape and a better structure and a work ethic to match. Everyone knows how I feel so I'm not going to write some huge analysis, instead I'm going to pick out comments I feel are wrong and dispute them...for example:

Originally Posted by fLesh23

Cutler does a better job of promoting bodybuilding anyway, soon as cutler takes Mr.O, I think we'll get more mainstream.

There's not a single shred of evidence supporting this. Ronnie travels the entire world, does a ton of guest posing, answers letters, and signs autographs for fans. On top of this, he also runs a message board where he posts and interacts with fans, and he's also signed the biggest supplement deal ever and is now getting more exposure for our sport through it. There's not only TV commercials but also the cross-promotion through BSN with bodybuilding and professional wrestling since they also sponsor Triple H. Jay also does a ton of guest posing and works hard for his fans and is obviously very recognizable with Muscle-Tech ads flooding every magazine out there but to say Jay is better at promoting our sport is irresponsible. Is it because he better reflects the average American poster boy image? I really hope that's not what you meant.

Also, let's not assume Jay's going to take Mr. O and make it more mainstream. This is a man who has, on several occasions, talked about retiring early and in recent interviews he's stated "all I care about is winning the O." I don't think I, nor anyone else, would be suprised if Jay retired after winning a Sandow, assuming he might someday.

There's so much more to making the sport "more mainstream" than having one bodybuilder promote the hell out of it. One man can only do so much and I think Ronnie has done a damn good job of promoting the sport to his ability. The rest falls on the hands of the Federation's Owners and the promoters of shows. You can't sick back and say if Jay wins the sport will be better known because honestly, what do you expect him to do differently than he is now?

[Flex]

Excellent post Lineski.

Although I do have to agree that Jay attracts more towards mainstream. If you havn't noticed, it seems most of the people just getting into bodybuilding prefer Cutler and Schwarzenegger over other bodybuilders.

[Lineski]

Originally Posted by Flex

Excellent post Lineski.

Although I do have to agree that Jay attracts more towards mainstream. If you havn't noticed, it seems most of the people just getting into bodybuilding prefer Cutler and Schwarzenegger over other bodybuilders.

Thanks bro.

I agree that people getting into it seem to like guys like Arnold and Cutler because they may have a more marketable look which I would agree with. I just think that having a "more marketable" athlete as the number one guy as opposed to the number two guy won't make that much of a difference; Jay still will get exposure win or lose. Personally I just like seeing the best man on stage win because I think fairness is what's best for the sport in the long run, especially right now because we're not really the most popular sport out there.

As for Arnold, he's just got one of those physiques that everyone likes and all young guys that get into bodybuilding aspire to be. They all (admittedly even me back in the day) followed his training methods and watched Pumping Iron 13,498,294 times because he's easily the best known bodybuilder of all time so it's a logical bodybuilder to look up to.

Jay's certaintly not bad for the sport, I just don't think he'll make any more of a dent in getting us mainstream attention than Ronnie is.

[Flexipecs]

Brilliant post, Lineski.
Couldn't agree with you more

However, I do find Jay's physique more pleasing to the eye than Ron's.
As a fan I chose Ronnie. His muscularity looks harder, and I love his maniac workouts in the videos.
I haven't seen "One Step Closer" yet, but I've seen all the other Cutler movies, and I find them dull and uninspirering.

Both of them excellent bodybuilders. I'd just wish the ideal physique would be more like Flex Wheeler or The Blade.

[cem]

first of all, gd post lineski. Second of all, i dnt get y people find jays physique more pleasing. Last yrs olympia, for example, as soon as i saw jay, his wide waist ,which slighlty overpowered his thighs, put me off. Mayb his legs were a bit flat from overdieting, but i fink a physique shd b judged on its x-frame. Jay has great width in his shoudlers but his legs need to b more wider from the front. Also from the side, jay's gut didnt help him win any votes in the "most pleasing physique" category. Yes, ronnie does hav gut too but he kept it tigth and controlled last yr. So overall, IMO i fink ronnie has the better, more balanced physique of the two. Which brings me to my last point, do u guys think 1999 Ronnie/2000 Ronnie wd beat Jay of 2005?

[fahad]

i wanna c more mass monsters win...this is wut bodybuilding is all about huge, cut, and balanced.....not small and balanced like so called malvin anthony....if u wanna b a fitness sexy boy then bodybuilding isnt 4 ya...ya should compeate in a fitness sexy competition.......

[Big Red Machine]

jay does have a more pleasing physique than ronnie because he looks human,if you cover up ronnies head he looks like some mix of different creatures and thats not pleasing.and ronnie only deserved 3 olympias i mean com on you cant be mr o if you have a belly as simple as that.and jay said on the probodybuildingweekly interview that he would go to public events and hire some type of agent.ronnie has been on the tonight show with jay leno but thats it.and sure jay was a little bloated in 05 but its nothing compared to ronnies worst stomach bloat.i dont think jay would retire as soon as he wins the mr o he will try to win it at least twice to prove that the year before was not a fluke.and end the massmonster era why so that dexter jackson would win no way, dexter didnt even deserve to win the arnold classic he has no chest no calves and no mass people want to see mass thats why they go to the olympia.im sure lineski is going to post a 10 page analysis on that every thing i have said is wrong, cant wait for it.

[TheAnimal]

Ronnie has monster triceps whatchu talking bout'

[Big Red Machine]

his triceps days are over he absolutely has no triceps and, go ahead post pics of his glory days but right now he aint got no triceps CUTS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

[Flexipecs]

Whut?
Dexter's got no mass? You've gotta be kidding me...
Of course his not as big as Ron, but he sure does have mass, and I for one think it looks a heck more pleasing than the big dogs. (Don't get me wrong - I love watching those freaks! )

[Lineski]

Originally Posted by big red machine

and ronnie only deserved 3 olympias i mean com on you cant be mr o if you have a belly as simple as that.

The belly arguement is old but I'll briefly discuss it. Ronnie does have a distended stomach just like every pro bodybuilder in the world. Because Ronnie is the biggest bodybuilder out there, he also appears to have the biggest gut when exhaling. If you want I can find pictures of other bodybuilders with a gut, just name one other than Richard Jones and I can probably find one for you.

3 Olympias? Which ones? 1998 was damn close between him and Flex but I feel Ronnie had 1999 pretty dominantly same with 2000. 2001 was close so I'm sure you're giving that one to Jay but can you really tell me that Kevin's lower body deserved a Sandow in 2002? 2003 was lights out, as was '04 and '05. Here's the thing though, I can go into so much detail of why I think each year was won legitimently and you can counter with "he had a belly" so what's the point? I'll just agree to disagree there because I know in the end Ronnie has the titles so I'm not really up for listening about how someone wants to rewrite history. I mean, come'on, we let Gunter beating Ronnie go and that was far worse than Ronnie beating Jay.

Originally Posted by big red machine

jay said on the probodybuildingweekly interview that he would go to public events and hire some type of agent.ronnie has been on the tonight show with jay leno but thats it.

Many people don't want to see bodybuilders and getting on the tonight show is a huge step. My question would be, if Jay wants to get an agent and do more appearances why doesn't he just do it now? Why would he wait until he wins to get one and make all these huge promotional appearances that you speak of? Just because you're not Mr. Olympia doesn't mean you can't do everything you can that's best for the sport. Plus maybe if Jay did those kind of things it would push Ronnie as well as other bodybuilders to get their names out there even more. Can I prove that? No. But can you honestly tell me it would hurt to try? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by big red machine

...and sure jay was a little bloated in 05 but its nothing compared to ronnies worst stomach bloat.

The difference is Ronnie does not have as wide or as thick a waist as Jay so when Ronnie exhales and has a gut, he still holds the rest of his lines pretty well. Jay's just a blocky guy by nature; it's his structure. When he gets overly distended it shows more and really takes from any taper he has. Gustavo's the same way; if he's a little off his mid-section just looks bad. With Jay's structure and the amount of mass he has on it, a little bloat goes a long way.

Originally Posted by big red machine

i dont think jay would retire as soon as he wins the mr o he will try to win it at least twice to prove that the year before was not a fluke.

Sure, he may win and compete again, he may not. As of now it's really a moot point becuase he hasn't won yet but he's said in interviews that he wants to win the O and cares about nothing else as far as bodybuilding competitions go. He's also stated he planned on retiring around the age of 34 so obviously if he doesn't want to be in the game too too long.

Originally Posted by big red machine

and end the massmonster era why so that dexter jackson would win no way, dexter didnt even deserve to win the arnold classic he has no chest no calves and no mass people want to see mass thats why they go to the olympia.

Dexter has a great combination of mass, proportion, and conditioning. I'm not going to get into why Dexter is a great bodybuilder because his record speaks for itself. But can you really tell me that Jay has a more pleasing physique than Dexter does? Come'on man. I can say that Dexter, along with Melvin and Darrem probably have the most pleasing physiques of anyone out there today. If you're so concerned with marketing and making bodybuilding bigger then wouldn't it make sense to have a very proportional and aesthetically pleasing bodybuilder as the top guy in the sport? I'm not saying this is how I feel, I'm just using the arguement you used against Ronnie against you.

Originally Posted by big red machine

im sure lineski is going to post a 10 page analysis on that every thing i have said is wrong, cant wait for it.

You got it! I aim to please!

Originally Posted by big red machine

CUTS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

You're not Jay Cutler or Ryan Seacrest so stop saying "Cut's Out!"

PS: It's not that I plan on attacking every pro Cutler post out there, but you can be pro Cutler and still be anti-Ronnie, or even if you are anti-Ronnie you can do it with some degree of respect. He still is Mr. Olympia afterall.

[Nothin' but a peanut!!]

HA big red machine still on his "ronnie has no triceps"
ron side tricep isnt a particularly strong pose form him, yet put him in a front double bi and you look at his triceps detail- ive never seen anyone come close to matching that, never seen anyone even HAVING any detail in the FDB in their triceps!
sometimes i think why people want jay to win is because that he is white, sometimes. look at the other contenders. DJ germany along with gunter, dex is black, vic represents usa im pretty sure but hes not white. and gustavo being from rico, think about it!

and then with dexter?
i read a comment jay made about the bloated belly rule. he said that he wanted a big guy to win, but alos a big guy with asthetics win. because the sport is called bodyBUILDING. dexter competes at 215, he at 270, and ronnie at 290. and then said dexter jacksons not winning the olympia, nor do i think he ever will.

well, dexter didnt have his arms chest legs etc BEFORE he started training, he has trained extermly hard for what he has got! jay cutler isnt winning the olympia either! notice in the challenge round in 2004, dexter mopped the floor with jay in the rear double bi comparison. jays back looked like a mess while dexters is clean and crisp looking and hard. and jay has brought his back up alot, i give him credit for that, and i always like to see bodybuilders who bring up lagging parts to me its a sign of their work ethic and determination to let nothing stand in their way to becomming a better bodybuilder first and foremost, before any title that it brings them.
i think alot of cutler fans think jay deserves to win because he bought his back up for the last olympia, as if that it was the one bodypart that was lagging. its as if, say, jays back was at say 100, and he bought it up to a level of 700, and they think that he should win! but ronnies back would be at about 900 or 1,000! thats not good explination but the only way i can thik to describe it! i think jay can be mr olympia but he needs to stop treating it like its his year, EVERY single year. hes sitll only mid 30's. while Ronnie is like 42 or 43 right.i think cutler is too impatient and should just keep training hard and he will get it.
but saying every year that he's gonna win and then doesnt do it is just lame. alot of the times it not cutler that i dont like, sometimes yes, but alot of the tiems its just majority (NOT all!!) of the ignorant fans that see some improvement in him and hink he should win. if cutler really WAS soooo dominating over coleman, then jay would place above ron every contest that compete together in. the fact is he doesnt, ronnie has 8 world titles and jay has zero - fact. no whinging will ever change it.

and big red machine you should onyl be so lucky if linski put a 10page analysis of what you said up in the thread. alot of posts you've made having been worht reading IMO they arent constructive and some of them very narrow minded. EYE for one love reading lineskis posts and the detail he provides for his thoughts so maybe you shuld start and appreciate them too

thank you
aaron

[Pain]

Every year Jay is getting better and better.. and it seems Ronnie just can't come in like he used to.

It's just a matter of time before Jay takes it.

[Pain]

[Pain]

[Pain]

[jornT]

Originally Posted by Lineski367

The belly arguement is old but I'll briefly discuss it. Ronnie does have a distended stomach just like every pro bodybuilder in the world. Because Ronnie is the biggest bodybuilder out there, he also appears to have the biggest gut when exhaling. If you want I can find pictures of other bodybuilders with a gut, just name one other than Richard Jones and I can probably find one for you.

3 Olympias? Which ones? 1998 was damn close between him and Flex but I feel Ronnie had 1999 pretty dominantly same with 2000. 2001 was close so I'm sure you're giving that one to Jay but can you really tell me that Kevin's lower body deserved a Sandow in 2002? 2003 was lights out, as was '04 and '05. Here's the thing though, I can go into so much detail of why I think each year was won legitimently and you can counter with "he had a belly" so what's the point? I'll just agree to disagree there because I know in the end Ronnie has the titles so I'm not really up for listening about how someone wants to rewrite history. I mean, come'on, we let Gunter beating Ronnie go and that was far worse than Ronnie beating Jay.



Many people don't want to see bodybuilders and getting on the tonight show is a huge step. My question would be, if Jay wants to get an agent and do more appearances why doesn't he just do it now? Why would he wait until he wins to get one and make all these huge promotional appearances that you speak of? Just because you're not Mr. Olympia doesn't mean you can't do everything you can that's best for the sport. Plus maybe if Jay did those kind of things it would push Ronnie as well as other bodybuilders to get their names out there even more. Can I prove that? No. But can you honestly tell me it would hurt to try? I don't think so.



The difference is Ronnie does not have as wide or as thick a waist as Jay so when Ronnie exhales and has a gut, he still holds the rest of his lines pretty well. Jay's just a blocky guy by nature; it's his structure. When he gets overly distended it shows more and really takes from any taper he has. Gustavo's the same way; if he's a little off his mid-section just looks bad. With Jay's structure and the amount of mass he has on it, a little bloat goes a long way.



Sure, he may win and compete again, he may not. As of now it's really a moot point becuase he hasn't won yet but he's said in interviews that he wants to win the O and cares about nothing else as far as bodybuilding competitions go. He's also stated he planned on retiring around the age of 34 so obviously if he doesn't want to be in the game too too long.



Dexter has a great combination of mass, proportion, and conditioning. I'm not going to get into why Dexter is a great bodybuilder because his record speaks for itself. But can you really tell me that Jay has a more pleasing physique than Dexter does? Come'on man. I can say that Dexter, along with Melvin and Darrem probably have the most pleasing physiques of anyone out there today. If you're so concerned with marketing and making bodybuilding bigger then wouldn't it make sense to have a very proportional and aesthetically pleasing bodybuilder as the top guy in the sport? I'm not saying this is how I feel, I'm just using the arguement you used against Ronnie against you.



You got it! I aim to please!


You're not Jay Cutler or Ryan Seacrest so stop saying "Cut's Out!"

PS: It's not that I plan on attacking every pro Cutler post out there, but you can be pro Cutler and still be anti-Ronnie, or even if you are anti-Ronnie you can do it with some degree of respect. He still is Mr. Olympia afterall.

Dude, really give up post like these. They cost time and aren't going to convince anyone. Everyone hast there favourite and I have yet to see anyone saying, yeah you're right, my favo BB isn't that good at all in any discussion. It doesn't matter wheter you're right or not, people have made up there mind and will keep it that way.

[ruel]

in physique, in lifting weights and even in the stage... ronnies is the best. kindly look at the Olympia 2005 pics. who got sharper conditioning and in abdominals area? who is bloated? i think, ronnie got a better midesection than cutler on that year!

[fLesh23]

Lineski367, I agree and disagree with some things and I REALLY don't feel like typing an essay... We're not in debate class right now or something good lord, calm down tiger.

[Pain]

Please cut out the member bashing in this thread.

[Pain]

Ronnie used to have great triceps.

[Nothin' but a peanut!!]

ronnie still does have great triceps

[Lineski]

Originally Posted by Pain

Please cut out the member bashing in this thread.

huh?

[Pain]

Originally Posted by Lineski367

huh?

i deleted the posts.

[Pain]

[Lineski]

Originally Posted by fLesh23

Lineski367, I agree and disagree with some things and I REALLY don't feel like typing an essay... We're not in debate class right now or something good lord, calm down tiger.

Well you started a Jay versus Ronnie thread and didn't expect debates? lol

I'm not dumb enough to think that my post on a message board will change any die-hard Cutler fan's opinion but I'm an opionated bastard and I like to be vocal about it. I'm a big fan of writing and feel I'm very good at debating or representing my case so I'll definately do so if need be. Like I stated in my first post on this thread, I'll only comment if I feel someone says something that's just ignorant or wrong or has no factual backing at all. A lot of things that will be brought up in this thread that I know we'll just have to agree to disagree on and I'm cool with that.

Jorn bro, I'm definately going to keep making long posts that express how I feel so if you want you can keep making short posts telling me their boring. It's all good

Originally Posted by Pain

i deleted the posts.

Gotcha.

And nice pics btw.

[Pain]

If you are gonna say something..be constructive instead of flaming someones opinion.

[jornT]

Originally Posted by Pain

If you are gonna say something..be constructive instead of flaming someones opinion.