Official Ronnie vs Jay Thread

miniduck · 06-09-2006, 09:16 PM

Hmm, since no one has posted for a while, I thought I'd share a pic of Jay from back in May-

And we were worried...

Lineski · 06-09-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miniduck

Hmm, since no one has posted for a while, I thought I'd share a pic of Jay from back in May-

And we were worried...

Note to miniduck: first, I cannot see said pic...

second...it's now June and Coleman owns

miniduck · 06-09-2006, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lineski367

Note to miniduck: first, I cannot see said pic...

second...it's now June and Coleman owns

1) Yeah, the stupid pic didn't work. I think it hates me.

2) It's not like he's gotten worse in the last month

3) Coleman's got a terrible gh gut and barely any tri's. If the judges actually go by their own criteria, Jay's gonna win.

Lineski · 06-10-2006, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miniduck

1) Yeah, the stupid pic didn't work. I think it hates me.

2) It's not like he's gotten worse in the last month

3) Coleman's got a terrible gh gut and barely any tri's. If the judges actually go by their own criteria, Jay's gonna win.

Dude, now you're just sounding dumb and for awhile there you were repping Team Cutler pretty well. I agree that Jay hasn't gotten worse in the past month because I don't expect one of the best bodybuilders in the world to start back-tracking this close to the biggest contest in the world; it's your third comment that's...well...dumb.

Why do you insist on bringing up the gut thing? Did you see the video of Ronnie and Jay guest posing together last year where Ronnie's gut was wayyy bigger than Cutlers yet at the Olympia their fortunes reversed? These rules that the judges set forth that you speak of have to do with symmetry, proportion and not having a distended stomach and Ronnie came in with a much tighter stomach last year than your boy so let's not bring up the mandate because it's only working against you. Ronnie knows what he has to do to win and will continue to do it; do you really think that he, or any of us, are worried about his stomach control on stage this next year? Absolutely not.
As for the tricep thing:

Below the white lines (that I tried to draw on MS Paint but didn't get that neat...close enough though) are where Ronnie's triceps start. Ronnie has absolutely massive triceps with incredible hang in poses like Front and Back DB. Yes, he definately did suffer some tricep malady that laid him up for a bit but the arm looks much better now. Just because he doesn't have incredible detail in the outer head anymore does not mean he has no triceps. If you wanted to pick on people without triceps name someone like Ruhl; not Ronnie.

I'm not a psychiatrist but if I was my evaulation would be that the more level-headed members of Team Cutler (ie. Skywalker) are willing to admit Ronnie looks far better than we thought he would while others are in denial and just running their mouths off. You were the one that said Team Coleman wouldn't be able to show our face on BBD.com anymore (I know it was a joke...) and frankly I was a little worried too until I saw these pics and I have never been worried about Ronnie winning before. The pics blew me away and I'm a Coleman fan; I know he's the best and I expect the best and he went far beyond that. So don't hate, bro. At least show some appreciation for a man with 8 Sandows and a man who Jay Cutler has never beat before.

mvsf1 · 06-10-2006, 04:39 AM

I think I should reply becouse I have also say Ronnie is Mr. No triceps. All we now Ronnie has 24 inch guns, HUGE biceps and big triceps but Linesky, think on it: Ronnie's tris are always the worst of top 5... he can't cut out his tri as other top guys do.

I'm not meaning his tris are bad, small or so, NO, I'm (I think WE, me and miniduck) reffering that they are his worst bodypart.

I don´t hate Coleman, I love him, he's a great BB, for sure one of the nest in the history of the sport, but u can't be blind: Ronnie has the best back in the world, but also a big gut; Ronnie can be extremelly ripped @ more than 270lbs, but his tris don´t seem as good...

And same we could say about Jay, he's more proportioned than Ron, but his chest is much worse than Ronnie's..., great shoulders and wider lats, but Ronnie's back thickness destroys him...

Conclusion: Don´t hate people that are not members of Team Coleman. Respect for both of them.

Lineski · 06-10-2006, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvsf1

I think I should reply becouse I have also say Ronnie is Mr. No triceps. All we now Ronnie has 24 inch guns, HUGE biceps and big triceps but Linesky, think on it: Ronnie's tris are always the worst of top 5... he can't cut out his tri as other top guys do.

I'm not meaning his tris are bad, small or so, NO, I'm (I think WE, me and miniduck) reffering that they are his worst bodypart.

I don´t hate Coleman, I love him, he's a great BB, for sure one of the nest in the history of the sport, but u can't be blind: Ronnie has the best back in the world, but also a big gut; Ronnie can be extremelly ripped @ more than 270lbs, but his tris don´t seem as good...

And same we could say about Jay, he's more proportioned than Ron, but his chest is much worse than Ronnie's..., great shoulders and wider lats, but Ronnie's back thickness destroys him...

Conclusion: Don´t hate people that are not members of Team Coleman. Respect for both of them.

I don't hate anyone. I've said more than anything that there has to be more analyzing and less bashing in this thread

My only problem with Team Cutler is that, as a group, they'll be much quicker to post negative things about Coleman than even positive things about Cutler. You gave what's your view of a fair, balanced assessment and that's fine. Like I said on the first page of this thread: everyone knows where I stand so I'm only going to comment when I feel people just say stupid things. I agree that Ronnie's tri's are his "worst bodypart" but it's one bodypart that has three heads in which two are spectacular so it's hardly a bad bodypart. I'm glad you at least tried to show both sides of your views though.

EDIT: I'm going to take a hit for something I said in the new Dexter thread...it's a joke, so deal.

Q80_MuscleHed · 06-10-2006, 12:18 PM

I have a high respect for Jay .. he's a true athlete and hardworker man .. and i hope one day he got the title .. he desreve it IMO .. But BigRon domoniates the world .. Team Coleman 2006

Knuckles · 06-10-2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lineski367

First, this is speculation on your part on how anyone, let alone we Coleman fans would act if we saw them both at the beach.

Of Course it was speculation, what are all of your posts composed of??? hmmm.... I'll answer it for you, speculation and opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lineski367

Also, to call Ronnie a "big tub" or a "big fat ass mofo" is insulting because his bodyfat right is probably lower than yours.

Speculation??? YEP! There we go, already acting hypocritically, and after only two sentences!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lineski367

He still has visible abs, veins in his chest arms and legs, and visible detail in his hamstrings. Yes, this is the result of him being so large and taking a fair share of drugs but if you did a caliper test, the number that would come up would reveal he is far from a "fat ass."

More speculation, and lets face it, he is looking beefy. Get over it Coleman fans, you would tear Cutler apart if he looked like your man. uh oh, I just speculated... I apologize in advance for that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lineski367

We're in the "off-season" where the goal is to put on as much muscle as possible and make as many improvements as possible so why are you so quick to call him fat when getting lean enough has never been Ronnie's problem...but it has been Jay's...hmmm...

Because he is looking fat!!! That's a valid reason to call him fat!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lineski367

Although even the beach ball line was pretty funny (

), it's a bit unfair to judge just how "pregnant" Ronnie looks based on a few pictures and his track record. Last year his mid-section was much flatter than Jay's so let's not be so quick to cast stones.

I'm glad you enjoyed that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lineski367

I would also like to point out that once again Team Cutler is going out of their way to say that Ronnie is fat, disgusting, washed-up, garbage, etc...instead of focusing their comments moreso on Jay's current condition and keeping a positive outlook. Sure, I think Ronnie looks much better and is poised to see him take #9 this year but I, or any other Team Coleman members, won't say Jay looks like **** or start going out of my way to point out his flaws.

I never said anything about him being "washed up"! Ron is the man, but I hope Cutler wins. Right now Cutler looks much better, thats all. You Coleman fans just don't like dealing with the fact that Jay is sooo much tighter than him right now. Get over it, we're just having fun with it, like I said before, you would be tearing Cutler apart if he was holding that much excess weight right now. And Cutler does look great now, and it's offseason and he is 300lbs!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lineski367

Ronnie doesn't look anything like a powerlifter right now either. For one, his bodyfat is too low despite how "pregnant" you're deeming him to look. On top of this his dimensions and proportion are so incredible at this bodyweight that there's no way one would suspect him to be anything less than a bodybuilder (who can lift some heavy-ass weight of course).
I never knew bodybuilding had a "jogging on the beach" round...maybe if could replace the challenge round this year

No, I disagree with you. There are a lot of powerlifters that are very balanced and shift into bodybuilding, at least at an amateur level. He could easily be mistaken for a powerlifter. This was however a joke, so I'm not going to defend it as if it were a strategized post, like the ones you attempt to make.

Go CUTLER!!!!!!!

miniduck · 06-10-2006, 01:31 PM

Sorry Lineski, I think I pissed you off a bit too much. I'll be the first to admit that Ronnie indeed is looking better than I thought he would be, but if I was a judge at this point, Cutler would certainly get the nod. Of course Ronnie has big triceps, but they are not even close to being in proportion to his biceps.

And about his gut- I assume it's going to get more in control as we get closer to the O, as it usually does, but I'm talking about right now, and Jay's got a big advantage there.

I think I was a bit too quick in making those comments, so I apologize for that. Mvsf1 stated what I wanted to in a better way, so thanks for that man.

Big Red Machine · 06-10-2006, 03:13 PM

now lineski is definitely posting a 20 page analysis that that will bore

us out of our minds

just kidding dont go all rambo on me

lineski

Knuckles · 06-10-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big red machine

now lineski is definitely posting a 20 page analysis that that will bore

us out of our minds

just kidding dont go all rambo on me

lineski

Yea he will. I'll start the coffee BigRedMachine!!! haha

Lineski · 06-10-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckles

Of Course it was speculation, what are all of your posts composed of??? hmmm.... I'll answer it for you, speculation and opinion.

To an extent but I have quite the track record for not only analyzing bodybuilders physiques well but also the way the judges would see them. I'm also, despite having some favorites, using an unbiased opinion and I point out things that some don't or others can't express quite as well. I also use facts and historical precedent.

Quote:

Speculation??? YEP! There we go, already acting hypocritically, and after only two sentences!!

Actually, that's more like assumption which, granted, isn't any better but Ronnie looks fatter than he is because of his size and how spread out his muscles are. If I'm wrong I apologize but show me the veins in your thighs, arms, shoulders, and chest, as well as, the detail of in hamstrings...then if I'm wrong I'll respectfully apologize.

Quote:

More speculation, and lets face it, he is looking beefy. Get over it Coleman fans, you would tear Cutler apart if he looked like your man. uh oh, I just speculated... I apologize in advance for that!

I'm not sure what exactly in my statement of, "He still has visible abs, veins in his chest arms and legs, and visible detail in his hamstrings" was speculation because I am seeing it in the photographs...sorry if you're not. Also, I can't speak for everyone (though I try, dammit! LOL) but I wouldn't tear Jay apart because he's one of the best bodybuilders in the world. I like seeing the better man win, that's all and I see Ronnie as the better man. I know I'd just say something like "Cutler's got a lot of work to do" but it's not my style to rip on bodybuilders because they've achieved so much more than I have. Now if someone starts a war on which is better, I will offer a fair critique.

Quote:

Because he is looking fat!!! That's a valid reason to call him fat!

Define fat.

Quote:

I'm glad you enjoyed that

Quote:

I never said anything about him being "washed up"! Ron is the man, but I hope Cutler wins. Right now Cutler looks much better, thats all. You Coleman fans just don't like dealing with the fact that Jay is sooo much tighter than him right now. Get over it, we're just having fun with it, like I said before, you would be tearing Cutler apart if he was holding that much excess weight right now. And Cutler does look great now, and it's offseason and he is 300lbs!!!

I realize you never said that, I was generalizing a bit about how some other members of Team Cutler have spoken on this boad over the past couple months. It definately wasn't targeted towards you bro, but some other members keep insisting he's too old/warn down to compete well anymore. It's just frusturation on my part; not a personal attack.

Quote:

No, I disagree with you. There are a lot of powerlifters that are very balanced and shift into bodybuilding, at least at an amateur level. He could easily be mistaken for a powerlifter. This was however a joke, so I'm not going to defend it as if it were a strategized post, like the ones you attempt to make.

Didn't realize you were joking and I'll just agree to disagree about him looking more like a powerlifter because we're not going to change each other's minds on how we feel he looks right now; I just like to clear up things I see as "wrong" and an actual opinion isn't one of them.

Quote:

Go CUTLER!!!!!!!

BigBen · 06-10-2006, 03:38 PM

I always feel bad for the person lineski quotes bc u know hes gonna prove them wrong

Big Red Machine · 06-10-2006, 03:40 PM

HE DID IT

oh and tanks for the coffe knuckles

Knuckles · 06-10-2006, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lineski367

To an extent but I have quite the track record for not only analyzing bodybuilders physiques well but also the way the judges would see them. I'm also, despite having some favorites, using an unbiased opinion and I point out things that some don't or others can't express quite as well. I also use facts and historical precedent.

Not sure how this means your statements are more than speculation and opinion.... I see you give yourself a lot of credit for your well thought opinions.... I already knew that...

Quote:

Actually, that's more like assumption which, granted, isn't any better but Ronnie looks fatter than he is because of his size and how spread out his muscles are. If I'm wrong I apologize but show me the veins in your thighs, arms, shoulders, and chest, as well as, the detail of in hamstrings...then if I'm wrong I'll respectfully apologize.

Assumption and speculation are quite the same, so what's the point of saying it was more like assumption?? You asking me to compare myself to Ronnie Coleman is a lil lame. A fat person is able to call another person fat(btw I am not fat, haha). Correct??? Correct. What he looks like has nothing to do with what I look like.

Quote:

I'm not sure what exactly in my statement of, "He still has visible abs, veins in his chest arms and legs, and visible detail in his hamstrings" was speculation because I am seeing it in the photographs...sorry if you're not. Also, I can't speak for everyone (though I try, dammit! LOL) but I wouldn't tear Jay apart because he's one of the best bodybuilders in the world. I like seeing the better man win, that's all and I see Ronnie as the better man. I know I'd just say something like "Cutler's got a lot of work to do" but it's not my style to rip on bodybuilders because they've achieved so much more than I have. Now if someone starts a war on which is better, I will offer a fair critique.

You speculated results of a caliper test!!!!! Nice of you to leave that out of your statement

And I'm sure you would post some funny comments like what I did about Jay if he was looking like a turd.

Quote:

Define fat.

Fat = Coleman in the offseason (opinion of course)

Quote:

Didn't realize you were joking and I'll just agree to disagree about him looking more like a powerlifter because we're not going to change each other's minds on how we feel he looks right now; I just like to clear up things I see as "wrong" and an actual opinion isn't one of them.

Of course I was joking... to an extent :)

miniduck · 06-10-2006, 07:14 PM

HERE WE GO! KNUCKLES VS. LINESKI! THIS IS ONE FOR THE AGES!!!!!!

Tickets start at 5 posts each, and they're well worth it.

Lineski · 06-10-2006, 07:46 PM

See, I just feel unless not really fair to call a top-tier professional bodybuilder fat in the off-season if in reality he's only fat in comparison to an "in-shape" bodybuilder. I was only comparing you to Ronnie in the sense that if he is in fact leaner than you then it's unfair for you as a bodybuilder/bodybuilding fan to call him fat; that's all. I still feel that if the average American should have around 15% bodyfat and Ronnie is lower than that than he's not fat but that's just my view. I didn't purposely forget to mention the caliper thing because I feel from what I see in the photos that Ronnie is far from an actual definitive fat.

I'm glad you at least have the guts to stand up to me here because most people don't and/or are too stupid to make any valid points. I do respect Jay and have talked to some people who actually know him (not going to drop any names

) and he seems like a very hard-working driven guy. Yes, he whines about his placements sometimes but not to the extent that others do (Titus

, Kamali, Mustafa, etc...). Really, when something "goes wrong" for Jay it's not like I'm happy he failed but I'm just happy because some members of Team Cutler (Hi, Big Red Machine

) have big mouths that sometimes need shutting! LOL

Definately no malice on this end, I just get frusturated sometimes. Still, at this point: advantage Coleman

Knuckles · 06-10-2006, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lineski367

See, I just feel unless not really fair to call a top-tier professional bodybuilder fat in the off-season if in reality he's only fat in comparison to an "in-shape" bodybuilder. I was only comparing you to Ronnie in the sense that if he is in fact leaner than you then it's unfair for you as a bodybuilder/bodybuilding fan to call him fat; that's all. I still feel that if the average American should have around 15% bodyfat and Ronnie is lower than that than he's not fat but that's just my view. I didn't purposely forget to mention the caliper thing because I feel from what I see in the photos that Ronnie is far from an actual definitive fat.

I'm glad you at least have the guts to stand up to me here because most people don't and/or are too stupid to make any valid points. I do respect Jay and have talked to some people who actually know him (not going to drop any names

) and he seems like a very hard-working driven guy. Yes, he whines about his placements sometimes but not to the extent that others do (Titus

, Kamali, Mustafa, etc...). Really, when something "goes wrong" for Jay it's not like I'm happy he failed but I'm just happy because some members of Team Cutler (Hi, Big Red Machine

) have big mouths that sometimes need shutting! LOL

Definately no malice on this end, I just get frusturated sometimes. Still, at this point: advantage Coleman

I hear you bro, I've got nothing but respect for you. So you wanna go to the AC show together??? imagine the car ride....

one of us would be dead by the time we got there. haha

Team Coleman does have the advantage, but that's what makes it even sweeter when the underdog takes it!!

you know you can count on me for an arguement anytime

Team Cutler baby!!!

miniduck · 06-10-2006, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckles

I hear you bro, I've got nothing but respect for you. So you wanna go to the AC show together??? imagine the car ride....

one of us would be dead by the time we got there. haha

Team Coleman does have the advantage, but that's what makes it even sweeter when the underdog takes it!!

you know you can count on me for an arguement anytime

Team Cutler baby!!!

I don't think Lineski even read my post earlier after he called me dumb...

mvsf1 · 06-11-2006, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lineski367

Still, at this point: advantage Coleman

I disagree with you, but like we say here, in Spain:

"The higher you are, the harder the fall will be".

Team astonishing Cutler babeeeeeeeeee!

dieseld · 06-11-2006, 10:36 AM

cutler and ronnie are on another level in terms of overall develpment..as an experienced bodybuilder builder, id have to go with cutler..ive seen them pose against each other a few times...ronnie's back is better, but cutler seems to have a better overall package, especially this past year..imo arnold is the guy thats inspired my look, think, tall, and skinny(were it counts)